Q & A: Against Me! talk labels, "selling out," and going to college with Butch Vig

by Nicole Villeneuve

August 29, 2011

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When we last spoke with Against Me! frontman Tom Gabel, the band was coming off the late-2010 rush of parting ways with major label Sire, getting back on the road to tour (as always), and beginning to figure out their next steps.

They haven’t taken a breath since. The Floridian punks recently announced their return to musical independence with the creation of new label Total Treble, which already boasts its first release, White Crosses/Black Crosses, another addition to the band’s tradition of supplementing albums with their demos and outtakes. In June, they released a new seven-inch single Russian Spies/Occult Enemies for Sabot Productions, and are finishing up a few more months of touring before Gabel gets to work producing the new Cheap Girls album, setting up his new post-office studio, and working on a new Against Me! record. The band has never been busier.

On (yet another) recent tour stop in Toronto, we wrangled Gabel once again to talk about the band’s charged new start, being mentored by producer Butch Vig, and their history of being misunderstood.

AUX: You guys currently have a ton of stuff going on. Is this a particularly charged time for the band?

Tom Gabel: Yeah. It’s odd too, because bands kind of go in cycles where you make a record and go on tour, but our cycle’s been thrown off where we put out a record, went on tour, and then we put out the record again and we’re still on tour. In a way we’re winding down and wrapping things up. These are kind of our last shows in North America of the year really, other than two festival shows, and we’re doing Europe in November, but other than that we’re going to start working on a new record then. On the one hand you have all athis stuff happening and feel like you’re being very productive, but on the other, you’re getting ready to go into kind of hibernation. It’s been interesting.

There was a time at the end of last year when you stopped the tour, then the announcement came out that you were leaving Sire. Did that shift have anything to do with this boom in activity? Did it mark a shift in perspective or attitude?

Yeah, for sure. It was kind of unexpected, because White Crosses had only been out for six months or whatever. And then the news that we would be parting ways with Sire, and we had to scramble to figure out what we were going to do with it, and at first we talked with other labels, then we talked about our own label and thought ‘let’s do that.’ So yeah, it’s been a productive time.

Why did you ultimately decide to do your own label?

It just seemed like the most exciting option. At this point, we’ve been on labels of every size, and kind of seen every different angle that you can do. Going with another label, it just seemed like all of our options were predictable, and nothing would have been challenging, if that makes sense. Starting your own label really takes you out of your comfort zone, and it’s all kind of on you then.

Even in the few recent years that you guys were in the major label loop, so to speak, things pretty drastically shifted in terms of the ways music is distributed and viewed.

For sure. It felt kind of scary, the idea, with right now everything being so up in the air, to sign a piece of paper that would have tied you to a company for five plus years, possibly. I feel like so much is going to change even in the next five years that I just want to have control.

What are you most excited about, doing it?

I guess the ability to move as quick as you want. There’s no ‘oh I’ve got to wait for this other band that they’re focusing on right now. Gotta wait for them to give us attention’ kind of thing. If we want to do something, we can do it super quick.

Do you fear any limitations?

I think the limitation is trying to wear too many hats. Trying to run the business end of it and doing the record label part and making sure that people know you have a record out, and also trying to put in the artistic element to making a record. There is the worry that you’ll spread yourself a little too thin, but at the same time, I’m obsessive compulsive and a little bit of a control freak anyway, so. I tend to do that anyway (laughs).

You just put out the White Crosses/Black Crosses LP. You guys have a history of putting out the demo, alternate take releases. I see it as a total fan pleaser.

Totally, yeah.

It also almost feels too that with these additional releases, there was a part of the original record that was untold.

For the most part, every record we’ve ever made has taken like at least a year of writing and preparation. And I’ve always had the attidtude of output. Put as much stuff onto paper, onto tape, as you can. And when it’s time to commit to something, sort it out then. Quantity first. Don’t try to inhibit yourself and don’t think too much about stuff. So you write as many songs as you can, and make as many recordings, and try to sort of figure stuff out. But then you’re left with all these recordings and songs, and some don’t make it, or some change so drastically as they go. And for me, conceptually, it’s weird thinking of stuff like ‘well this is a demo, and this is the real recording,’ because they’re both recordings. So to say you’re not doing one of them for real, but you are. So to separate the two is kind of odd. And to have a closet full of recordings that no one’s going to hear kind of sucks. So to get them out, really, I think is the best thing to do. I was definitely insired by the Bob Dylan Bootleg Series. Seeing him put out a mass of work and listening to the way the songs evolve is really interesting.

Looking at the band’s trajectory, have you ever felt misunderstood or underestimated in some of your decisions?

Sure. And also just kind of limited in a way where it’s frustrating to continually be associated with a label. Which was another one of the reasons it seemed exciting to do our own label. Being associated with no labels seemed, for the first time, refreshing. No one can point to the label you’re with and have any connotations that go along with that. It’s definitely odd. Especially in the punk scene, when you get into the labels that are so confined to like, when you’re on Fat Wreck Chords you’re on Fat Mike’s record label and you’re associated with every other Fat band whether you sound like them or not. Same with No Idea. And then with Sire, you have the big evil corporation thing going with it (laughs).

In terms of like, when you guys signed with Sire, instead of people seeing it as an opportunity, of course people used the word sellout. Which is one of the worst and worst-used words. But did you ever feel like, ‘guys, trust me.’ You weren’t doing it thoughtlessly.

Oh, for sure. Especially when people make claims about whether or not you’re surrendering your artistic integrity. It’s like, c’mon, do you really think we’d be stupid enough to sign away our artistic control? Of course we’re not going to make a deal with anyone if that’s on the table. And of course we’re trying to do what’s best for us. It’s often times frustrating too, and it’s an unwinnable argument, because no one’s mind will ever be changed, but it’s like, you’re in the band, you know how it works. You’re the one working with record labels. You see the limitations and positives and all that stuff. And a lot of the time people giving you criticism have never been in a band. They have no idea how it works, and they’re speaking from no personal knowledge. Their criticism has no foundation, really. That’s always frustrating. A lot of the times people think that your record label is tied into your touring, and that someone else picks the bands you tour with. Or that someone else is paying for the bus that we have out front, as opposed to it being us. So a lot of the time stuff like that. Or they think you fly in on a helicopter or something. But what can you do. (Laughs)

You always seem conscious of seeing things in a positive light and taking things in as something to learn from, including the time with Sire. Can you talk a bit about that ending?

In like, I think it was September (2010), we found out that Tom Whalley, who was the CEO of (Sire owners) Warner Brothers, had stepped down, or quit, or got fired, I dunno. And the new guy that came in, Lyor Cohen, he fired everybody. So both of our A&R guys that we had, our production manager, publicist, everyone. So literally no one that we know who we worked with on the past two records at Warmer works there anymore. So there was immediate fear like, oh god, we’re going to get totally lost at this label. And so when that started happening, I started being really vocal about the fact that I thought it was time to move on and basically asking to be let go and they were cool about it. They let us out of the contract and gave us our records back. I think that with any record label that we’ve ever worked with, there’s been negative things that have happened, but that’s the nature of working with people. On our end too, I’m sure people could have complaints about working with us. But that’s just the way it works, and you kind of live and learn.

So the upcoming record—it hasn’t been started yet?

Not really. I’ve been writing a little bit, but it’s been hectic touring so it’s been hard to focus. I just kind of want a break from the road to focus.

When’s that going to happen?

We’ve got two months off coming up, then touring Europe in November, then it’s kind of wide open. Right before I left on this leg, I signed the lease on an old post office that I’m building a new studio in to record the next record in. That’s kind of the idea for now, get a set-up of even more control. Wear more hats. Just really be able to be productive. A lot of the times it sucks, you feel like you go out on these two-year long touring sprees, and you have time in between home, but when you come home, you have nowhere to record. So to have the ability to record as you come and go is appealing.

And you’re also working with Cheap Girls, right?

Yeah, that’s the first project in the studio. I have a month when I get home to make the place functional, and then start the record in October.

I read recently that you said working with Butch Vig was the closest you’ll get to going to college. How has that been formative for you?

It goes back to what you said about people giving you the benefit of the doubt. For me, that opportunity outweighed any negative thing that could have come along with Warner or whatever and the experiences like that. The ability to work with a producer of his class and his talent, regardless if we went and made the worst records in the world, I knew I was going to get this experience and this education, basically, and I have this opportunity to pay attention to what was happening, and the process. So to come out of that and to kind of realize that Butch, to me, is totally my mentor and totally my idol, you know? The records that he’s made and the career he’s had, I think it’s something most artists would aspire to. Definitely something I want to get into more.

Would you do the new record with Butch?

I’d love to, yeah. I’d love to. I know there’s a new Garbage record coming out so I imagine they’ll be doing some touring around that, so we’ll see what happens.

Cool. With all you’ve experienced, then, what would today’s Tom say to 15-year-old Tom right now?

(Laughs) It’s easy looking back wishing I’d done things differently. A lot of the times, thinking back to being 15, a lot of the things seemed out of your grasp, as far as—I mean I’ve wanted to be in a band and play music since I was eight years old, and I started playing guitar then. And I feel like I wasted so much time just thinking so many things weren’t possible, you know? If I could talk to my 15-year-old self, I’d tell myself to get a fucking job and buy some fucking equipment and go on tour for real. Don’t be broke for so long (laughs). Just get it in gear, man.

Tags: Music, Interviews, News, Against Me!

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